Frances Carlson, professor and author of Big Body Play: Why Boisterous, Vigorous, and Very Physical Play Is Essential to Children’s Development and Learning, joined us for a paradigm-shifting webinar on February 7, 2018. More than 5,000 people registered, so we know early educators are eager to learn more about making vigorous play part of their programs. Because time got the best of us, Frances was unable to answer all of the questions participants asked during the session, she offered to answer them in writing. She was also kind enough to provide three great resources: Rough in a Good Way: Supporting Big Body Play, Pedagogical Leadership and Rough and Tumble Play, and The Power in Playing Power Ranger and Other Superhero Play.
If you are interested in learning more about how Frances can provide professional development or consulting to your organization, check out her profile on ECEexperts.com or visit her website.
Here are the wonderfully detailed answers Frances provided. Frances, on behalf of all of our participants, thank you!
Q.1. loved all those games like spud and red rover – but aren’t those our memories from being about 6, 7, 8? What kind of roughhouse “game” are best for 3, 4, 5 year olds? My kids like plain ol wresting.
A.1. I think the BBP games 3 – 5 year olds organically play among themselves are a great start – games like chase, swinging each other around by holding arms, rolling around on the ground, climbing up on the tops of objects and then jumping off, for example. I also encourage teachers to use finger plays as “Big Body Games.” To do this, just substitute big body movements for the ones we typically ask children to do with their fingers. The Big Body Games are also a way to introduce this play style to children who aren’t interested in it on their own.
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Q.2. Where can we find some of this research?
A.2. The book – Big Body Play – has the complete research reference list in the back of it.
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Q.3. I agree that this type of play style is important, but I find that many parents are so concerned about their children getting hurt.
A.3. I remember through all my years as a Center Director that sometimes families would disagree with a policy or want us to do something with a child (or not do something) that created some stress for both family and center personnel. In that moment, I found that focusing all of us on the child and what was best for the child’s growth and development was one way to handle the situation. I believe, though, that the best way is through a clear statement in a family handbook that states transparently that children will be allowed to roughhouse while in the center. I advocate for including images of what this roughhousing typically looks like in both the Family Handbook and in the center’s entryway. The book – Big Body Play – has sample policies, a sample Letter for Families, and a sample training for center staff.
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Q.4. Please clarify are you saying that “violent play” is okay? What is the teacher’s role in this situation?
A.4. I’m sorry if you heard me say violent play is okay. I have stated repeatedly that this play is boisterous, vigorous, extremely loud, and often appears to be actual fighting without being actual fighting. It is. Many parents and teachers alike are quite put off by how loud and seemingly aggressive the play can be. The difference is in the intention of the play and the children’s involvement in the play. I encourage you to review the recording of the webinar again to clarify my stance on this play style.
The teacher’s role is to supervise it, step in and modify it if needed, and allow it whenever possible. The teacher’s role is also to schedule many periods throughout the day when children are allowed to do some of these very vigorous moves, like swinging, jumping, skipping, crawling, and twirling. The teacher’s role is to understand the benefits of this play style – benefits other play styles don’t offer near as much of – and to articulate those benefits to families and other stakeholders.
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Q.5. What are recommended parameters for rough and tumble play among children who have behavioral issues?
A.5. This is when teachers have the greatest responsibility and the greatest opportunity to help these children develop skills for life: skill of understanding non-verbal communication and understanding what is often inferred and not explicitly stated. Children with behavior issues need a teacher close by (next to, behind) to help coach this child while the child plays alongside peers. The child may need individual coaching and modeling for how to tag, or grab, or swing around, in ways that aren’t hurting. I don’t advocate for teachers roughhousing with children in ways that involve close body contact (like wrestling) but I do advocate for teachers participating – in order to guide children – in games like chase, or freeze tag, or something like “Ring Around the Rosie.” Remember: it’s the children who have roughhoused the most who have the most social skill, and children who don’t have it can develop it through roughhousing.
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Q.6. I’m teaching in a self contained ABA class for preschoolers and this information is very interesting. I have about four students that play really rough and I feel like I should stop them but maybe I should jus guide them in their play… Where do you draw the line?
A.6. Good question. Remember the three things to look for in appropriate rough play: smiling face, willing participant, sustained (and often collaborative) play. When a child is crying, I intervene to make sure everyone is okay, and then may have to restate what the rules are (or remove a child for us to restate the rules/expectation) but then return to the play as soon as possible. When the circumstance is fighting and obviously not play (see three things to look for above) then the intervention is to possibly offer first aid, write an incident report, but also to get to the bottom of what happened.
Sometimes, a child who can read body language and intention understands that a tag is playful and that child tags back, and all is well on the playground. With a child who doesn’t understand body language and intention, though, the tag feels like and is understood to be a slap, and that child retaliates back with several blows. The first child was roughhousing, but because the second child didn’t “get it”, she lashed out and began fighting. The child who doesn’t “get it” needs lots and lot (and maybe lots and lots and lots) of coaching and practice. She also needs to build skill in non-verbal communication. Do things like:
- go through a picture book and ask the child what she thinks the characters are feeling or doing based ONLY on the pictures.
- You can watch a short piece of a child’s cartoon with the volume turned off and ask the child to tell you what’s happening based on what she sees.
- Play nonverbal Simon Says where you only gesture to the children what to do without saying a word.
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Q.7. How do you encourage a child that does not enjoy rough play?
A.7. Big Body Games are also a way to introduce this play style to children who aren’t interested in it on their own. To create them, just substitute big body movements for the ones we typically ask children to do with their fingers. Try to pick finger plays that will be really boisterous when the children are acting them out. You can also play games like Lily Pad where you put out a lot of Lily Pads for the children to jump on (make sure they’re securely attached to the floor) and then remove the Lily Pads one at a time until all the children are trying to get onto one. The child with the greatest need for being jostled about will try to get in the middle, and the child who isn’t comfortable with it at all will stand on the outside. Think about more open-ended play opportunities so the individual children can choose their comfort level. Some children never get comfortable roughhousing with others, but can get comfortable jumping and twirling around individually. And that’s okay J
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Q.8. What if you have one child that lives to roughhouse and the child he interacts with always starts to cry?
A.8. When a child is crying, I intervene to make sure everyone is okay, and then may have to restate what the rules are (or remove a child for us to restate the rules/expectation) but then return to the play as soon as possible. I would also encourage the crying child to tell me or show me the cause of the crying so I can then help this child communicate in ways other than crying (if another way would’ve been more successful). Some children only know crying as a tool for expression. I would help the child express what he or she felt: frustration, fatigue, fear, or whatever it might be that caused the tears.
When the circumstance is fighting and obviously not play (see three things to look for above) then the intervention is to possibly offer first aid, write an incident report, but also to get to the bottom of what happened.
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Q.9. How do you encourage a child on the Autism Spectrum to BBP with other children when the child has difficulty “reading” facial ques?
A.9. The child who doesn’t “get it” needs lots and lot (and maybe lots and lots and lots) of coaching and practice. She also needs to build skill in non-verbal communication. Do things like:
- go through a picture book and ask the child what she thinks the characters are feeling or doing based ONLY on the pictures.
- You can watch a short piece of a child’s cartoon with the volume turned off and ask the child to tell you what’s happening based on what she sees.
- Play nonverbal Simon Says where you only gesture to the children what to do without saying a word.
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Q.10. How involved is a teacher in this play? I have played BBP where I am right next to them and very involved in keeping things safe.. I know there is not a formula for this but what are some examples of teachers roles with indoor and outdoor BBP?
A.10. I don’t advocate for teachers roughhousing with children in ways that involve close body contact (like wrestling) but I do advocate for teachers participating – in order to guide children – in games like chase, or freeze tag, or something like “Ring Around the Rosie.” Remember: it’s the children who have roughhoused the most who have the most social skill, and children who don’t have it can develop it through roughhousing. And, based on individual comfort level, a teacher may allow children to crawl over him or her. Teachers also participate with the child who may need individual coaching and modeling for how to tag, or grab, or swing around, in ways that aren’t hurting. I encourage teachers to throw balls for children to chase even if the teacher doesn’t participate in the chase. The important piece here is that the Big Body Play is supported and supervised. Teacher interaction in the play is optional and will depend on personal comfort and center policies/state regulations.
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Q.11. Can you explain “letting off steam” in other words? I know that physical expression of anger (punching pillows is not helpful for calming down…I imagine you mean something else by “blowing off steam”?
A.11. Sure! “Blowing off steam” refers to that crazy screaming and running around that children often do as soon as they get a chance to. The movements appear meaningless and valueless, but they aren’t. The children are doing this to blow off steam and the blowing off steam has value. Like I said in the webinar, I wonder why as adults we don’t run around outside more often (the screaming may not be okay to do unless you’re in a wide open field away from onlookers) but the running around will feel really good.
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Q.12. What age should the rough play begin?
A.12. I see infants crawling over and on top of each other as soon as they develop that developmental skill. The book – Big Body Play – has a section that addresses this development and what the teacher’s role looks like in it. The play progression continues from there.
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Q.13. We have infants, toddlers and preschool aged children in the same space…how do we allow rough play in the house and keep the little ones safe when the spontaneous rough play begins?
A.13. I continue to be amazed at how older and/or larger children will self-handicap in order to roughhouse safely with younger/smaller children. Supervision is key, as are the few rules you develop with the children. Those preschool children should be able to determine what they need to do to keep the toddlers safe. You can also designate an area for rough play only and then send the rough-playing children to that area (that you can still supervise) so they can play roughly while the rest of the children are in the main area.
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Q.14. Am I hearing that big body play, although similar to music and movement and gross motor play, is a step beyond in allowing children to play in rough and tumble ways?
A.14. It’s a step beyond, to me, because it is mostly about the big movements children want to make up and do on their own (child-directed), while music and movement and gross motor play is typically teacher-directed.
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Q.15. Are children also learning compromise when they come up with solutions then also with BBP?
A.15. Absolutely! And I’ve wondered these past few months if maybe our elected Congress needed more roughhousing as children so they’d be better at compromising on legislation J Children want and need this rough play, and so if the only way a child can get to stay in the play is to compromise, the child will generally compromise. The pay-off is the rough play continues.
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Q.16. So are you saying that giving more opportunities to engage in BBP will help the children who struggle with social cues?
A.16. Remember: it’s the children who have roughhoused the most who have the most social skill, and children who don’t have it can develop it through roughhousing . I’ve also mentioned other techniques throughout my answers that can assist children struggling with social cues. One piece I’ll add here is that it’s also beneficial if we’ll use a wide range of emotional expression with children” angry, peeved, frustrated, somber, lonely, tired, disappointed, furious, elated…and get away from only using sad and mad to describe the expressions they are giving to us.
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Q.17. When the BBP is self-initiated, what is the role of the teacher in the play and how can we help to enhance it when appropriate?
A.17. I don’t advocate for teachers roughhousing with children in ways that involve close body contact (like wrestling) but I do advocate for teachers participating – in order to guide children – in games like chase, or freeze tag, or something like “Ring Around the Rosie.” Remember: it’s the children who have roughhoused the most who have the most social skill, and children who don’t have it can develop it through roughhousing. And, based on individual comfort level, a teacher may allow children to crawl over him or her. Teachers also participate with the child who may need individual coaching and modeling for how to tag, or grab, or swing around, in ways that aren’t hurting. I encourage teachers to throw balls for children to chase even if the teacher doesn’t participate in the chase. The important piece here is that the Big Body Play is supported and supervised. Teacher interaction in the play is optional and will depend on personal comfort and center policies/state regulations.
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Q.18. Do you have any resources or experience with BBP for older kids? I work with kids age 3 to 12 and many of the kids up through the years still want to play this way. I’d love to give our school some resources on how we can support this play for older kids too.
A.18. I admit my expertise is through age eight, but truly through age five. Wrestling is always a good option, as are tag games and games like King of the Hill; Encourage these older children to create their own games with guidelines. School-age children are quite adept at making up their own games and this collaboration with their peers to determine how the play will proceed is the best for their social, language, and cognitive development.
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Q.19. When talking to kids about their play, do you call it rough and tumble and fighting…one allowed and one not?
A.19. I call it Big Body Play, rough and tumble play, horse play, and roughhousing. I usually don’t call it play fighting to young children, though. With older children I use the rough play terms (including play fighting) and then use the term “fighting” for the one that inflicts intentional pain in an effort to control or retaliate.
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Q.20. I love the concept of “Body Confidence!” Please explain more if you can.
A.20. I think there are several resources on developing body confidence. To me, it’s the understanding children gain about their bodies when they test and try them to achieve certain physical milestones, and then the resulting boost in self-confidence the child has from the physical accomplishment. I don’t know much else that feels as good than a physical challenge a child meets or overcomes. It may be running really fast, or climbing high, or jumping down… all while afraid to do so but doing it anyway.
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There was a lot of conversation about slide climbing at the end of the Q & A. I read several responses that mimic exactly what I would say: do things like have designated “Up” and “Down” days. Or the slide is a designated supervision zone where the teacher can help children navigate the coming down and climbing up. Both sliding down and climbing up are beneficial physical exertions for children. I’ve had teachers comment that the children are at an unsafe distance from the ground while climbing up but – to me – the slide isn’t moving and so the children are no more unsafe climbing up than would be sliding down.
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